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 Everything about Dolka

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Red
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PostSubject: Everything about Dolka   Everything about Dolka Icon_minitimeMon Mar 19, 2012 2:35 am

I wanna make a ruling thread just for dolka because i always forget what it can and cannot negate

so if you know a dolka ruling post it ^.^


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overd0se.KayKay
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PostSubject: Re: Everything about Dolka   Everything about Dolka Icon_minitimeMon Mar 19, 2012 2:21 pm

Hm i don't know that card, but only by looking at it, it seems to be a divine wrath as a monster.


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Ageha
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PostSubject: Re: Everything about Dolka   Everything about Dolka Icon_minitimeMon Mar 19, 2012 5:09 pm

That's easy Dollka's effect can be activated once other monster's effect is activated. Like for example, I attack your defense position monster with Red Dragon Archfiend and since Archfiend's effect automatically activates, you can activate Dollka to negate effect and destroy it.




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Karin
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PostSubject: Re: Everything about Dolka   Everything about Dolka Icon_minitimeMon Mar 19, 2012 5:28 pm

and obv ageha picks red demon archfiend Razz fav monster much? xD


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Life Stream Dragon
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PostSubject: Re: Everything about Dolka   Everything about Dolka Icon_minitimeWed Mar 21, 2012 1:07 am

overdose is right.. its pretty much a divine wrath, but then as monster and detaching as cost.. remember that its still a monster, so its still a spell speed 2 card

when can his effect activate? everytime when a monster effect is activated, even during the damage step.. ppl keep forgetting that during the damage step you can only use cards that changes the atk/def of a monster, spell speed 3 cards, and cards that are stated to be able to activate during that time.

Dolkka states: "When an Effect Monster activates: You can......"
which means that you can even stop a gorz.. atm gorz activates (damage step) you get the choice to negate its effect or not, since we all know that the summon of gorz is a summon by its own effect..




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L.Lawliet
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PostSubject: Re: Everything about Dolka   Everything about Dolka Icon_minitimeWed Mar 21, 2012 3:53 pm

And the effect can be used once per chain.


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Karin
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PostSubject: Re: Everything about Dolka   Everything about Dolka Icon_minitimeWed Mar 21, 2012 5:57 pm

Can dolkka negate effect veiler? Razz


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Life Stream Dragon
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PostSubject: Re: Everything about Dolka   Everything about Dolka Icon_minitimeWed Mar 21, 2012 6:30 pm

Karin wrote:
Can dolkka negate effect veiler? Razz
he can.. veiler would be chainlink 1 (discarded as cost), dolkka chain as chainlink 2.. chain resolves backwards.. so dolkka negates veiler before veiler can resolve...




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L.Lawliet
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PostSubject: Re: Everything about Dolka   Everything about Dolka Icon_minitimeWed Mar 21, 2012 8:49 pm

But if you... lets say summon tour guide, if dolkka goes to negate the tour guide you can chain as chain link #3 effect veiler, to negate the effect of dolkka, you'll receive the effect of tour guide.


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Kaiza
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PostSubject: Re: Everything about Dolka   Everything about Dolka Icon_minitimeWed Mar 21, 2012 9:42 pm

yea but you see, you can only use effect veiler on your opponent's turn




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L.Lawliet
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PostSubject: Re: Everything about Dolka   Everything about Dolka Icon_minitimeThu Mar 22, 2012 4:39 am

Sadly true and only in Main's, well you can do that with fiendish, you get the point Wink


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Genma no Ou
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PostSubject: Re: Everything about Dolka   Everything about Dolka Icon_minitimeSat Mar 24, 2012 7:06 pm

L.Lawliet wrote:
Sadly true and only in Main's, well you can do that with fiendish, you get the point Wink

Except Dolka can't negate Fiendish Chain anyway, so there isn't the same issue as with Veiler.

More relevant (if convoluted) example: Let's say my Sangan is sent to the Graveyard during my Main Phase while I control a Dolka, and my opponent discards Skull Meister (idk why he's running it, but for the sake of argument he is). He activates Dolka, and NOW I can Chain Effect Veiler to negate him. Since Dolka can only be used once per chain, Skull Meister goes through.




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L.Lawliet
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PostSubject: Re: Everything about Dolka   Everything about Dolka Icon_minitimeSat Mar 24, 2012 11:30 pm

For the sake of the argument, you chain that so he can deetach one material V_V, and further notice, you got the point. Dolkka can't be used twice in the same chain.


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Genma no Ou
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PostSubject: Re: Everything about Dolka   Everything about Dolka Icon_minitimeSat Mar 24, 2012 11:48 pm

L.Lawliet wrote:
For the sake of the argument, you chain that so he can deetach one material V_V, and further notice, you got the point. Dolkka can't be used twice in the same chain.

Is there a specific reason Dolkka can't so off twice in one chain? The main once-per-chain monster effect I know of is RaiDa, and that's mandatory. As far as I'm aware, optional effects like Naturia Beast can usually go off multiple times per chain.




My Decks:
Sephy-Nor
Volcanic Xyz
Troll Beasts
HERO Drain
Neo Galaxy Hieratics
Hieratic Gishki
Infernity
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L.Lawliet
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PostSubject: Re: Everything about Dolka   Everything about Dolka Icon_minitimeSun Mar 25, 2012 12:18 am

It's a Quick Effect, that can be used once per chain, just like for example LADD - once per chain. There are other monsters, that has the Multi-Trigger Quick Effect, for example here take the "Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV8" if you look closely in the effect of the card, You can negate the activation and effect of any Spell Cards and destroy them, the important part is "any Spell Cards" meaning that it will negate all. Now Dolkka's effect "When an Effect Monster's effect activates: You can detach 1 Xyz Material from this card; negate the activation and destroy it." - no any, or what soever.

Read more on wikia, since I can't post the link... just type "Trigger Quick effects and Multi-Trigger Quick effects"


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Genma no Ou
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PostSubject: Re: Everything about Dolka   Everything about Dolka Icon_minitimeSun Mar 25, 2012 4:07 am

L.Lawliet wrote:
It's a Quick Effect, that can be used once per chain, just like for example LADD - once per chain. There are other monsters, that has the Multi-Trigger Quick Effect, for example here take the "Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV8" if you look closely in the effect of the card, You can negate the activation and effect of any Spell Cards and destroy them, the important part is "any Spell Cards" meaning that it will negate all. Now Dolkka's effect "When an Effect Monster's effect activates: You can detach 1 Xyz Material from this card; negate the activation and destroy it." - no any, or what soever.

Read more on wikia, since I can't post the link... just type "Trigger Quick effects and Multi-Trigger Quick effects"

RaiDa isn't the best example actually; if he could activate multiple times, he'd respond to himself and create an infinite loop. As for Dolkka versus Horus... The wording differences are mainly down to the changes in wording over the years. There's next to no clear indicators in the text of the cards to illustrate what is and isn't multi-trigger.




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L.Lawliet
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PostSubject: Re: Everything about Dolka   Everything about Dolka Icon_minitimeTue Mar 27, 2012 4:08 pm

...
Let's put it like this, you have Dolkka with 2 materials, I have sangan and goblin zombie, you activate dark hole and you chain lance on your Dolkka, Dolkka can't negate both searches, only one of them.


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Life Stream Dragon
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PostSubject: Re: Everything about Dolka   Everything about Dolka Icon_minitimeTue Mar 27, 2012 4:55 pm

L.Lawliet wrote:
...
Let's put it like this, you have Dolkka with 2 materials, I have sangan and goblin zombie, you activate dark hole and you chain lance on your Dolkka, Dolkka can't negate both searches, only one of them.

well dolkka will be destroyed by dark hole, so it cant activate anything atm dark hole is activated..



but to simple end this endless conversation.... there are no cards that can double chain, with exception to continuous effects.. for example: you have a face up decree and you attack your opponent. your opponent chains mirror force and you chain compulsory. decree will chain on both and negate them..

in cases like dolkka, he cannot use its effect twice in the same chain. another example: you have a dolkka, and i summon tour guide. you negate tour guide and i chain effect veiler. at that moment dolkka cant chain on veiler. you wonder why? ask konami

end of discussion?




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L.Lawliet
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PostSubject: Re: Everything about Dolka   Everything about Dolka Icon_minitimeTue Mar 27, 2012 5:59 pm

L.Lawliet wrote:

you activate dark hole and you chain lance on your Dolkka

Dolkka won't be destroyed.


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CyberZane
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PostSubject: Re: Everything about Dolka   Everything about Dolka Icon_minitimeTue Mar 27, 2012 6:48 pm

L.Lawliet wrote:
And the effect can be used once per chain.

I don't get what u mean by that because you can mind control dolkka, and activate a monster's effect negate it and chain dolkka's effect on its self to negate and destroy Dolkka


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L.Lawliet
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PostSubject: Re: Everything about Dolka   Everything about Dolka Icon_minitimeTue Mar 27, 2012 7:59 pm

I mean that if I have Wangu face-up and I summon tgu and call priority, if dolkka were to negate something it can negate only wangu since it goes chain 2, meaning that it can't nagate tgu's effect. Further notice, like I said, if you dark hole my sangan and golbin (dolkka stays face-up do to forbidden lance) dolkka can't nagate both.


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Life Stream Dragon
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PostSubject: Re: Everything about Dolka   Everything about Dolka Icon_minitimeTue Mar 27, 2012 10:23 pm

L.Lawliet wrote:
I mean that if I have Wangu face-up and I summon tgu and call priority, if dolkka were to negate something it can negate only wangu since it goes chain 2, meaning that it can't nagate tgu's effect. Further notice, like I said, if you dark hole my sangan and golbin (dolkka stays face-up do to forbidden lance) dolkka can't nagate both.

i totally missed the Forbidden Lance part.. but just to clear things up... i said before that nothing can double chain with exception to continuous effects.. in the official rulings of this game (damned konami) is stated that quick effect monsters CAN chain twice in the same chain as long it does not contains the discription: "Once Per Turn...". quick effect monsters with a cost can chain to itself. quick effect monsters without cost, except galaxy, cannot.

further more there is no discussion possible..

@L.Lawliet: the answer to your question is that dolkka CANT negate both. why? lemme explain:
sangan and goblin both triggers when they hit the grave. as we all know cards cannot be activated on the same time but can trigger one after another. and then you choose to which one you want to resolve first. at that moment your opponent gets priority to chain on its activation in this case dolkka. lets say he negates sangan. but at that moment goblin already was triggered (activated). we all know that we cant chain or negate resolutions and goblin is already resolving when sangan is negated. so dolkka pretty much misses timing.




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L.Lawliet
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PostSubject: Re: Everything about Dolka   Everything about Dolka Icon_minitimeTue Mar 27, 2012 11:00 pm

I didn't ask... I know it can't negate both effects.
This is why: http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Simultaneous_Effects_Go_On_Chain


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barragan2
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PostSubject: Re: Everything about Dolka   Everything about Dolka Icon_minitimeWed Mar 28, 2012 6:29 am

Basiy ther sayin u cant?... Its basicly the same ruling for LaDD as lawliet said... This ruling was originally made cuz ladd wouldv otherwise negated its own effect, or constantly Chain to another ladd... So u shouldnt be able to chain its eff to itself to kill itself...
Lol wen i first saw this topic i nevr expected it to get this big...


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